Stories are unique to the human race. They inspire us, delight us, and cast the familiar world around us in a whole new light. Everyone has been wrapped up in a good story at some point in their lives- curled up with a book you can’t put down, binge watching television shows late into the night, or being so obsessed with a story you find yourself dreaming about it. And every one of us, at some point, has thought, “What if….”
Today we are entering the online world of fanfiction: what is it, who writes it, and why the subject matter often leans to the dark, the sexual, and the taboo.
That’s what we’re in for today on Impolite Society.
Sources:
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/02/surprising-18th-century-origins-fan-fiction/606532/
https://reporter.rit.edu/views/fanfiction-legal-battle-creativity
https://noraphoenix.com/2018/03/26/introduction-into-mpreg/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/questions-about-mpreg-you-were-embarrassed-to-ask
https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/comments/v9h4ae/analysis_of_the_top_fandoms_on_ao3_percentages/
https://screenrant.com/fan-ships-highest-number-fanworks-ao3-ranked/#keith-amp-lance-voltron-legendary-defender
https://archiveofourown.org/tags
Email us your impolite questions at rude@impolitesocietypodcast.com and visit our website for info about the show and your hosts Laura and Rachel.
Stories are unique to the human race. They inspire us, delight us, and cast the familiar world around us in a whole new light. Everyone has been wrapped up in a good story at some point in their lives- curled up with a book you can’t put down, binge watching television shows late into the night, or being so obsessed with a story you find yourself dreaming about it. And every one of us, at some point, has thought, “What if….”
Today we are entering the online world of fanfiction: what is it, who writes it, and why the subject matter often leans to the dark, the sexual, and the taboo.
That’s what we’re in for today on Impolite Society.
Sources:
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/02/surprising-18th-century-origins-fan-fiction/606532/
https://reporter.rit.edu/views/fanfiction-legal-battle-creativity
https://noraphoenix.com/2018/03/26/introduction-into-mpreg/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katienotopoulos/questions-about-mpreg-you-were-embarrassed-to-ask
https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/comments/v9h4ae/analysis_of_the_top_fandoms_on_ao3_percentages/
https://screenrant.com/fan-ships-highest-number-fanworks-ao3-ranked/#keith-amp-lance-voltron-legendary-defender
https://archiveofourown.org/tags
Email us your impolite questions at rude@impolitesocietypodcast.com and visit our website for info about the show and your hosts Laura and Rachel.
Stories are unique to the human race. They inspire us, delight us, and cast the familiar world around us in a whole new light. Everyone has been wrapped up in a good story at some point in their lives. Curled up with a book you can't put down, binge watching television shows late into the night, or being so obsessed with the story, You find yourself dreaming about it. And every one of us, at some point, has thought, What if Today, we are entering the online world of fanfiction. What is it? Who writes it? And why the subject matter often leads to the dark, the sexual, and the taboo. That's what you're in for today on Impolite Society. Welcome to the podcast that explores the topics you can't discuss in polite society, like the idea that two brothers can get each other pregnant, have butt babies, and raise them together. I'm Laura.
Rachel:And I'm frightened. Nope, that is quite the intro to set this topic up. But, you know, before we dive into it, I am Rachel. I'm not just frightened. I have a name. And it's Rachel.
Laura:And this is a frightening and exciting topic today. We are talking about fanfiction. And a little behind the scenes info for you, before we came back for Impolite Society Season 2, Rachel and I actually thought about doing a new podcast that 100 percent revolved around fanfiction or for the initiated. Fanfic.
Rachel:Oh my god, I had completely forgotten that we had even talked about that. That was like another lifetime ago. Oh my god, it was such a good premise, but I can't remember what exactly it was. But I know I was excited about it. Uh, what was it called? What was it called?
Laura:happens.
Rachel:redact that! Redact that!
Laura:Oh, okay. I'll I'll I'll bleep it.
Rachel:Beep! Yeah, we don't want anybody to steal our ideas. It was gold. And, reading the research today, I'm like, let's do it. I want to do it now.
Laura:Like you said, redacted. We'll talk about that later
Rachel:Yeah, stay tuned, because we, the two mothers of four children under four. Uh, we need another side project on top of our side project. We have too much free time. Some of us choose to build a kitchen. Others do another podcast.
Laura:So today we are not only going to tell you more about fan fiction, we just want everyone to know that this is a topic near and dear to our collective hearts that has almost endless applications. And so if you're not familiar. What is fanfiction? Let's just get some basic facts on the table. If for some reason you've been like buried to the internet in the last 10 years fanfiction
Rachel:goes longer than that, right? Like 20 years. I'm sure as soon as the internet started, somebody
Laura:well, I guess that's true. Oh god now you're dating me. This is one of the things like oh, yeah That was 10 years ago. No, that was like 20 25
Rachel:in the nineties. Like we're cats coming on Time's arrow. March is on.
Laura:Fan fiction is a category of writing where writers take the original works of others. So thinking a book, a TV show, a movie, an anime, a comic book, whatever you can think of that has original characters in it and creates their own stories using those characters.
Rachel:I mean, technically they don't have to be fictional characters either. You can write about people in your life. I think of Tina Belcher from Bob's Burgers has her friend fiction that she writes. Her erotic friend fiction where she writes about her friends and sexual situations. I love Bob's Burgers. It's such my comfort show. I have been watching it on repeat during this newborn phase of life.
Laura:That is an interesting take. I've never thought of it. But yeah, you're absolutely right because they don't necessarily have to be fictional characters. We'll, we'll talk about that a little bit later, but these stories usually have a certain theme to them.
Rachel:And that theme is, what if these two, or three, or four, or five, or six, characters fucked in increasingly weird and fucked up ways? Right? Did I get that right?
Laura:Well, fanfiction is not always sexual. Some people do write perfectly in character, canon, vanilla versions of fanfiction. It truly is. It really is. It's very sweet. I think of it as people like, like, auditioning to be a writer on the show. You know what I mean? Like they're making
Rachel:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laura:The vast majority of fan fiction is about relationships, romance, sex, or straight up porn. Or, a combo of those, because it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. You can have something that's about a relationship and romance and then like a everyday thing, but then also there's wild fucking at the end. You know, you can mix and match these things.
Rachel:That reminds me of the 30 Rock episode where Liz Lemon has to give Tracy Morgan her life rights and he uses it to make a porno. And it's just kind of like that. At the end of the episode it was just the characters doing the same thing that they had done in the episode but then fucking at the end.
Laura:Yep, that's pretty much where it goes.
Rachel:But this makes me, this makes me, I have to ask. Have you ever written any fanfic?
Laura:I think you know the
Rachel:I think I do too. I think Laura has written a lot of, A lot of fanfiction. Did you post it to websites? Is it still out there? You, you, oh my god, I remember, it is out there, but you won't tell me the name.
Laura:No.
Rachel:You gotta tell me the name.
Laura:No. I
Rachel:That's that's the one topic we won't broach. I'm pretty sure in the clitoris episode we talked about our vulvas extensively, but Laura won't tell me her fanfic author name.
Laura:Maybe I will after the episode.
Rachel:Well, maybe we'll make a Patreon, and if you subscribe.
Laura:What about you?
Rachel:would say I have dabbled. I've never published anything to a website, but I did, one of the things I wrote when I was in high school was a scene of Bella Swan's first kill when she became a vamp. But little did I know that Stephanie Meyer was going to make her like the perfect vampire lady who never succumbed to the bestial urges of killing and drinking the blood of a human.
Laura:The bloodlust.
Rachel:didn't have it. She was just super self control vamp mommy. But anyways, that was like the only thing that I wrote ever that was explicitly fan fiction. And even then I wasn't too embarrassed to actually put anybody's name into it. Um, but I'm pretty sure I, I wrote some quote unquote original things as a young adult or teenager that were. heavily influenced by, the things that I were reading at the time, like Twilight and all those other fantasy romance books. So very thinly veiled fan fiction.
Laura:I feel that I feel that and there's actually a term That we're gonna get into later that I fell into like whoa,
Rachel:Was it Mpregs? Because I was excited to learn more about that.
Laura:No, it was not I've always thought that fanfiction started relatively recently, and that's kind of right. But truly, Fan fiction has been around since the 1700s. This is when the general public became more and more literate and books made their way into everyday people's hands and their imagination started churning. And I think about this and I'm just like, man, what a time. To be alive, there's no TV, there's no radio. There's just fucking daily drudge every day. And you know, the people in your lives and you know, that provides its own entertainment, but nothing to really get that brain whirling. And then. Books, books, whole new worlds opening right in front of you. You know, for people who like make money and like have time to sit down and imagine whole new worlds, you, you know, everyday normie drudgery doesn't have time for that. But then you open these books and you have just pure imagination in front of you. And even normies wanted to get in on that game.
Rachel:So they were more stories being exposed to more people, so then as soon as you got your hands on a story, you were gonna take your own spin at it and take the characters and play with them.
Laura:Especially if you are more a creative type soul, but again, if you weren't born into privilege and class, you've never had the opportunity to exercise that because you're fucking working 16 hours a day.
Rachel:Yeah, oh yeah. But if those people, they still had stories too, right? They had songs and ballads and like oral tradition. The only thing about that was there was no OG source material. So I would say everything up until books and written words and, you know, typewriter, not typewriter. printing press, that was all fan fiction. You think the Iliad was exactly what happened verbatim? They're like, it's all, we got a whole fanfic about this guy named Odysseus and what he did.
Laura:And we decided to put it down on paper and make it fact.
Rachel:Yes. Yeah. After we've had enough iterations of the fanfics of what really got the crowds going.
Laura:And so around this time, everyday people were writing their own spinoffs, uh, of Gulliver's Travel and Jane Eyre, and they were submitting them to local newspapers for serialized printing, and some of them were a little more like dirty limericks in cartoons. But the principle was there, everyday people who aren't the original creators are continuing the journey on their own because truly nobody likes an ending. If you enjoy a story, you want it to go on and on and on. Or those little snippets that you're like, Ooh, missed opportunity. You know, my imagination is churning. Let's get it down on paper because I know other people are going to think it
Rachel:Or, or what was another character who wasn't the main character, what were they doing during this part of the story, and all that kind of stuff, and it's just, it's really funny that even, humans are humans are humans regardless of time, and of course you want dirty limericks in cartoons, of course, that's just, that's a natural step in the journey, but man, wouldn't that be like the biggest compliment as somebody who made something or created something that people would Took the ball and kept rolling with it. I would not even be offended. Do you think there's any fanfic about podcasters? There has to be.
Laura:Hmm. Probably. Oh, I bet if I go on, Archive of Our Own, there's something about, like, stuff you should know, like the classic
Rachel:what I was gonna think. Oh my god, what if they made them gay together? Oh, no, I don't want to read that. I'm sorry.
Laura:Okay, I'm just gonna share something. There was a fanfiction I wrote, and I shared it, to Tumblr, specifically. And people fucking rolled with it. One person drew a cartoon about it, and another person wrote a fucking song about it.
Rachel:what was the source material?
Laura:I'm not gonna say.
Rachel:it Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
Laura:No, it was not. And
Rachel:Dirty Jobs.
Laura:no, I,
Rachel:I'm just gonna keep guessing. Band of Brothers.
Laura:bowled over that I was like, holy fucking shit. And I mean, I know that they were all like teenagers, we'll get into the demographics of
Rachel:Oh yeah. But I think that's like beautiful, right? To feel connected to those people. To have that connection. And I think that kind of rolls into what makes it so Such a, I don't want to say movement, but it makes it a
Laura:It is, it is a, a movement and it is a community, but, and that community started kind of as we know it today in the 60s. And that was with the rise of science fiction magazines and nerds. You gotta fucking love them and these were not regular today nerds. Oh no, in the 60s, these are dedicated nerds because we don't know how good we have it nowadays. You are one Google search away from a unique community of weirdos that are just like you. Back in the day, you had to fucking work for it. Fans met each other at movie releases. Bookstores, conventions, they built themselves a community and by, I guess, trading addresses, I
Rachel:Yeah. Cause how else are you going to have your meetups where you dress up like an animal and floof each other or whatever? I don't remember what exactly the word was, but that was a throwback to furries. Yes. which is a, another show we did way back in the day, but fun fact that also originated at like comic cons and AKA what Laura called nerd conventions. So I love the furries. God bless them. Weirdos
Laura:of community in today's day and age, and I can't think of a better example. Even our weirdos can't meet in person anymore. And I just want to say that I, I say weirdos in the most lovingly way because make no mistake. I am one of those weirdos. I am a fanfic weirdo,
Rachel:need weirdos, because without weirdos, who would make all the podcasts? Would it just be lifestyle influencers, and coaches, life coaches, and former actors in sitcoms? They already have enough attention. They don't need any more.
Laura:fucking truly, because
Rachel:Turn into the rat king of attention.
Laura:but it really is. It's like podcast is really the last. True, like, pure bas Actually, you know what I'm gonna say? Fan fiction and podcasting. The last true bastion of weirdos. Cause I feel like everything else, like you said, has been co opted by like, the super influencers, super popular, everyone's trying to monopolize, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're staying true.
Rachel:Well, I think, like, D& D.
Laura:Okay, fine. Prove me wrong.
Rachel:some fandoms.
Laura:All right. Anyway,
Rachel:people write fanfic about D& D. Oh, especially the movie with uh, who's that guy? The Duke from Bridgerton? Our, our.
Laura:Okay. Anyway, anyway. So these sci fi fans, they started communicating and they created their own fanzines. And these are fan made magazines that are about the subject matter that they were interested in. Fan magazines were printed out. And mailed to the communities that were interested and along with kind of reflection pieces like, Oh, this is what this means to me. This is the subtext of this episode, movie, et cetera, et cetera. There's some character explorations, actor details, original works started to appear in these fan magazines.
Rachel:And, oh my god, that sounds like a dream job, which I guess it probably wasn't even a job. It was probably just people doing it for fun. But like, what a great hobby to be the editor of one of those zines, where you just get to be the one who spends all this time diving through the, the fandom and the interest and picking what gets to go in there and what's worthwhile. Ugh!
Laura:Yeah, for sure, for sure. I don't know, I was trying to figure out, I'm like, did people pay for this? I mean, they had to have had, right? Like, if you print it out and mail it, that's cost. But, like, I don't know how the system worked. But it was analog and labor intensive,
Rachel:Did they cut out, like, letters and tape them onto a page and then photocopy it?
Laura:No, they would, they were photocopied, but they get, like, You know, one printer to do a couple of things and then they would photocopy it and, and bind it together with staplers and then send it around. and so these fan magazines were happening since the, the 50s or the 60s, labor intensive, but then in 1968, it happened. The first slash fiction appeared. If you don't know what slash is,
Rachel:don't. I don't know what Slash is.
Laura:Truly,
Rachel:I don't.
Laura:oh
Rachel:Is it like Slasher?
Laura:no, mm mm, mm mm. I'm Gonna get you in on it. There are a lot of fanfic terms, and too many to define in its entirety here, but the number one term that you need to know is slash. And slash fiction is so called because of the forward slash, or slash between two, yes, forward slash the symbol, between two characters names when a story specifically gets pornographic. So it's not like, oh, Bella and, I don't know, what's another Twilight character's name? That's not Edward.
Rachel:Rosalie.
Laura:When Bella and Rosalie had like a conversation or a side, you know, something, it wouldn't be Bella slash Rosa, whatever. It, it has to be like, No, this is a pairing. So that's when you do slash. It was First used to describe homosexual relationships, the unconventional relationships, but I think that the definition of slash has kind of evolved a bit to involve a het porn to again, I'm going to define that term later, but I'm going to use my. Original fanfiction love here to get you the idea of what Slash is. So like, Buffy slash Angel. That would be Angel and Buffy fucking. Buffy slash Spike. Angel slash Buffy slash Spike. A Hehehehe Angel slash Spike fucking. So you get the idea. The combinations are endless, but it's the characters that are involved in fucking with slashes between
Rachel:So this is like in the title. This isn't in the actual writing itself.
Laura:Yeah, it's, it's, it's not in the title. It's in the descriptor of what that
Rachel:okay, okay, okay. Because I was thinking that it was like you open the piece and it was like, Angel slash Buffy or Bucky. Like, I was just like, because again with fanfiction, grammar can be hit or miss. I will say from my limited experience in reading fanfiction, I, it's, it's a wild west out there when it comes to
Laura:It is a fucking Wild West. You get absolute shit. Then you'll come across a piece that is just like absolute fucking art. And I'm like, how do I determine the difference? Question? You can't. You just got to search
Rachel:You just gotta roll the dice.
Laura:you are digging for gold, man.
Rachel:luckily, they have those pairings slashed together. So it's like a menu, right? You can just do a little browsing and find exactly what you were looking for. Exactly what you want. Like, oh, these two random characters? I wanna see them do it. And see what situation led to it. nobody wants to Read without getting the jollies, you know? Like, who's going to spend time reading supremacistly? Come on, this is America.
Laura:you can go through on these online forums and search like I want this slash this and I only want Explicit material like
Rachel:So, that makes sense because that feeds the search engine, right? Because it's one term. Yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense why the slash came in there and how it was adapted to be cute little lingo.
Laura:So the first known Slash fiction the one that happened in 1968 was written by Jennifer Guttridge titled the ring Of Sauce Hern. Any guesses about who it starred? Think science fiction.
Rachel:The Ring of Saucern? I don't know anything about Ring, Lord of the Rings, first thing I thought of. But that's not science fiction. Uh, Battlestar Galactica? Is that that old? Star Doctor Who, Star Trek!
Laura:No. Star Ah!
Rachel:Did I get it? Doctor Who, Star Trek? I'd watch some Tom No, what the fuck was that guy's name with the long scarf on Doctor Who? Somebody
Laura:Who. I'm talking about Star Trek.
Rachel:but I would watch Dr. Who, read Dr. Who fanfic. No, no, no, no. It was the original from the 60s or whatever
Laura:No, I don't
Rachel:But I do love, I do love me some David Tennant and Christopher Eccleson. And those two together. Can you have a doctor slash doctor?
Laura:Oh, most definitely that's out there. 100 percent that's out there. But
Rachel:Okay, back on track. Focus, Rachel.
Laura:It was Kirk? And Spock, uh, in the Ring of Saucern. I may be mispronouncing that, I don't know. But let me give you a little summary. Quote, Kirk and Spock find themselves stranded on a remote, deserted planet. Spock goes into the state of Ponfar, the violent, in heat fever that comes to Vulcans. Okay, side, side, side note, that is 100 percent canon. That is something that happens in the show, they come into heat.
Rachel:The, the phrase, violent in heat fever made me wretch. I'm sorry, that
Laura:Back to quote,
Rachel:traumatizing. Okay.
Laura:during which they must have sex or die. To save Spock's life, Kirk allows Spock to penetrate him and the two then fall in love and spend all the remaining days on the planet exploiting Both the planet and each other's bodies.
Rachel:oh my gosh. I mean. Penetration is a very big jump. Like, you could throw a hand into the mix to save your bro, right?
Laura:I don't know the rules of PUNFAR! It might have to be penetration. You know, if it's like, in heat and like, you gotta like, impregnate somebody? Anyway, okay. So right out of the hate, fanfiction is getting exactly where people live. Which is in the taboo.
Rachel:Oh, this makes me want to do the other podcast so bad. Cause it's like, oh, it's our hobbies. It's fandoms and fanfic and the taboo. It just was such a natural, it was such a good idea. I mean, maybe we'll do it like a limited series, like we'll do it in a series someday where instead of constantly around the clock, like, I'm in Polite Society, our, first never maturing newborn baby that cries every three hours and demands, demands, demands. No, just kidding. I love it in Polite Society. But, maybe in the future we'll do like a season, where we'll do like seasons of this other thing. Because also
Laura:we could just throw it in here. Like, throw it in the feed. Like, what do y'all think of this?
Rachel:I like that idea, because who the fuck cares, right? It's either you listen to it or you don't, and we'll get a pretty idea we'll get an idea pretty quick.
Laura:It's a hobby. Who fucking cares? Okay, so things in fanfiction can get weird and dark pretty fucking fast and don't get me wrong it's not all Sexual deviancy like I said, there are some vanilla things in there But there is no better way to prove this by looking at a convenient word cloud of tags on Archive of Our Own, also known as AO3, and this is the most popular fan fiction destination on the internet. so Rachel, looking at that word cloud, what are some of the ones that really jump out at you?
Rachel:Okay, so my first kind of skimming scanning over it, the ones that are the, you know, the ones that are Not gonna surprise anyone. I see smut, I see romance, I see BDSM, bigger than others, and a fun one, just humiliation and mythical beings and creatures. Those are just some of like the ones that jump out. But it's not just like, I keep finding more that make me go, Viscerally cringe. Anyways, those are just like the normal ones, right? But there's some on here that are making me truly concerned for humanity. And those are What are the ones that kind of like shocked me as I'm looking through? Well, finger fucking is very big on here. And that's a very
Laura:feel like that shouldn't be concerning. I feel like I'm like, yeah, I'll click on that tag.
Rachel:But it's like, why is it so big? I don't know. I just like, how many finger fuckings are happening? How many finger fucks are happening? But then there's also like, very confusing ones. Torture.
Laura:Mm.
Rachel:What is this B one? Bodily fluids. Harm to children?
Laura:Woof.
Rachel:I'm, I'm not, I don't even want to Touch that with a 10 foot pole. Torture. Like just, what is going on here? But then there's also some like cute ones that make me intrigued like, um,, pining. I'm like, aww, pining. But then there's also a category for secrets, and I'm just like, what's that? What are the secrets? So this really, it covers the whole spectrum of humanity, but there's also some non sexual ones on here. Like, if you look, if you just get past the non consensual, you see non sexual.
Laura:General, that's another one. Like, general is non sexual fictions. So there's a lot going on in this word cloud. And so let me, let me start with some of the more harmless ones and define some of these
Rachel:Okay, yeah, cuz there was one I wrote down, dead dove. I don't know what that means, and I didn't
Laura:I honestly tried to look into that. Don't know what that is because I was also like, what the fuck is that? And then I clicked into the tag and I'm like, I don't see a through line and all these different stories So if somebody knows what dead dove don't eat the dove is please let me know. I don't know But let's start with some of the harmless ones Alternative universe. This is very common a you fix. So this is when The world as itself is canon. If you don't know what canon is, that is like, that's the creator. That's the official version of the story. Alternative universe is where you take that canon story and switch some things up, whether that is, a crossover with, uh, another. fandom. So if it's like, Marvel and DC characters are interacting or Buffy characters and, uh, Twilight, yeah, Twilight characters are interacting or alternative universe of like, these are the same characters, the same people, but they don't live in that universe. They live in, Our normie universe, or they live in a zombie apocalypse universe,
Rachel:Got it. So like, what if Harry Potter wasn't a wizard? Like, and he just wasn't an accountant or something.
Laura:but, but it was the same thing, like his parents died and like, he was abused child and, uh, for some reason, famous, I don't know,
Rachel:And he wanted to fuck everyone.
Laura:not always, uh, and then, uh, another term is real person fiction.
Rachel:is this like where fictional characters meet real people? Like, can I use real person fanfic to insert myself into, let's say, Bones? The TV show Bones. Oh, shit!
Laura:No, it would be more as if you or a fictional character had sex with the real person of David Boreanaz who plays a character on Bones.
Rachel:and Buffy. right? That's So it would be like, if, it's kind of like that erotic friend fiction, right? Where it's like, I take a real person and I write about them. Like, I could write Oh, President Obama fiction,
Laura:Precisely. And the
Rachel:up or something. I don't know what he does in his spare time.
Laura:And this is kind of like a moral gray area. Sometimes this is frowned upon in the fanfiction community But I Mean could you imagine like I mean like so a podcast fiction would be a real person Fiction.
Rachel:yeah, like we made jokes about that. Do you think that we, oh my god, what would you do if somebody made an Employee Society fanfiction?
Laura:I would be so fucking flattered and I would post it everywhere and everything and say look at this.
Rachel:like, you know what it would be.
Laura:So? Who cares? No such thing as bad press.
Rachel:Yeah, I guess, because they're like, what else are they going to do? Oh, Laura edited half of the episode and then texted Rachel. Okay, I did my half. Now it's your turn. Because that's the reality of it. And nobody wants to read that.
Laura:Alright
Rachel:I don't see real person on here.
Laura:I don't think it's, it's not a super popular one, but it definitely
Rachel:Okay, because I was going to see who are the top people, real people.
Laura:Well, and, and Rachel, you and I, if we were to do, if somebody were to write a fiction about us, it would be Real Person Fic or FemSlash, which is When two girls get it on again, Rachel slash Laura with the, the slash in between that's fem slash, because traditionally, like I said, it was more for homosexual relationships of men.
Rachel:Gosh, even in the fanfiction world, men are the default. You have to add the female. What about, why can't women just be scientists? Why can't they be women scientists? Or women porn. Or just porn. Why's it gotta be women porn?
Laura:Femme slush. Uh, another really cute one that you'll see that is big on here is Fluff. Fluff is just basically like cutesy stuff, you know, like, oh, they're in a established relationship and then like, oh, they, they have a good cuddle. You know, like, it's just pure, like, good feelings only. Uh, that's what fluff is and I was always like, fuck fluff, I'm not interested.
Rachel:Okay, I saw that and I was, thought it was referring to the furries.
Laura:got fat and got
Rachel:No, I thought it was, I, the floofing or whatever that, I, I literally thought it was a sexual thing. Oops.
Laura:Well, I mean, it can be sexual, but it's like, a
Rachel:That's, that. Oh, it's coming back to me. Okay. Continue. Continue.
Laura:harmless ones, the ones that you pointed out. So, very popular, BDSM. So we're getting into the more darker side, non consensual, that's another, big theme in here, or dubcon, that's another thing, dubcon is dubious consent, so, happening, maybe under duress, under, under the influence, dubcon is, is very popular, I don't know. And that makes sense, right? Because if you're taking characters from a show, or TV, or movie, or books, or whatever, that have no reason to actually be interested in each
Rachel:You have to make a reason.
Laura:exactly.
Rachel:oh, these two enemies got drunk and then they ended up boning.
Laura:Precisely. Or one forced themselves on the other and the other was like, no, but yes, it,
Rachel:Ugh.
Laura:would be dubcon another tag, angst, uh, angst fix or hurt and comfort. So again, something terrible happened and they're very upset and they need solace and they'll find solace wherever they can take that
Rachel:Leading to sexual situations.
Laura:Exactly. Um, and. And, uh, just bare bones, another one that's big on this word cloud is violence because, you know, there,
Rachel:Oh, wow, yeah. What is that, just like, beating each other up? Or is it like, violent sex?
Laura:It could be anything. It could be they're beating each other up. There could be, they're having violent sex, but. You're seeing a theme here, right? I, I assume you are, but let's hold that thought because one not listed here, which surprised me because I know it's extremely popular, is Mpreg. Any guesses on what that is?
Rachel:uh,
Laura:I talked about it a little at the top though, so you might Be clued
Rachel:Oh, with that, thinly veiled, is that, I'm guessing, supernatural reference?
Laura:Yep.
Rachel:Is it, have to do with, um, butt babies, as you called it. Ha ha ha ha!
Laura:That's right. M Preg is male pregnancy. This is a whole universe in and of itself where two men, you know, who get in relationships, like romantic relationships and, or, you know, like I said, non consensual or dubious consent, and they can get pregnant. This is not. Regaled to a certain fandom, like my Supernatural reference. This is all fandoms that this shows up in. And there are all kinds of rules, uh, that they've created around it. It's, it, it's very confusing to me. I'm not into these fictions. So I've never, like, dived into this world. But there's something, like, they've created a universe where this is supposed to have made sense. There's, like, alphas, betas, omegas. And then they They get together and there's a term called nodding. I don't really know what that means.
Rachel:I can guess.
Laura:Well, it's definitely like sex, but there's something related. I, something like they like
Rachel:the aftermath of a dog doing it?
Laura:Oh,
Rachel:That's, that's, like, what I imagine. Did you know that dogs get stuck inside of the other one? For like 30 to 40 minutes after mating?
Laura:Well, then that's probably exactly what it
Rachel:Yeah, I just imagine their, like, genitals are getting locked in together. No, but it's actually dogs will get at it, and then when they've done, like, they, they jump off, but the penis is still stuck in the vagina, and they stand butt to butt, and they look at, they just look at you like dumbass dogs do. And you know, just know exactly what they did.
Laura:Uh, okay, yeah, that's probably exactly what this is about. I don't know much about it. I know sometimes it can involve shape shifting. Um,
Rachel:What, they shape shifted to a woman? I'm so
Laura:so? Anyway, it's a whole genre of fiction, again, that spans all different kinds of fandoms. But that's a thing, but okay, back to that theme that you had in your head of some of the things that we talked about, which I imagine was
Rachel:Finger
Laura:violence. Well, I mean, who could have a problem with that, but violence, non consensual. Dubcon hurt. And I know you, Rachel. And I think, I'm not a mind reader, but I think that your feminist brain is probably turning right now. You know, we've done all these episodes on like, you know, sex sounds, and you know, violence, and that kind of thing.
Rachel:Porn, the animated porn.
Laura:Yeah, porn! Not even just animated porn, just regular porn. You'll see a clear theme going through. These sexual dynamics of fanfic, to me, are the most interesting thing about it.
Rachel:It's interesting that we just mentioned animated porn and porn in general because I personally It's not so much the feminism part that ticks in my brain on this because we see this across everything from porn to romance, like romance, the genre right now, the big thing is dark romances where women are being abducted and sex trafficked and all this horrible, horrible stuff. And yeah, people are consuming that and whacking off to it. It's interesting. so to me, it's, I think I know where you're going. Patriarchy and whatnot. But I think it's all the same kind of, Chasing that super stimuli, that giant egg. You always gotta be more shocking to get readers. Yeah, and same thing with the social media that's radicalizing all of us and all that stuff. It's just a nature, nature of the beast, right? Once you have access to everything, the ordinary, You can't just have a dirty limerick about Mr. Darcy anymore, that doesn't get us, doesn't get us there. We have to have Mr. Darcy chained up in our basement.
Laura:You gotta go dark.
Rachel:Especially cause you said it's about taboos, so you gotta amp up the taboo every time. And may I quote, harm to children.
Laura:So keeping that all in mind, let's talk about demographic. Who writes this stuff? The readers and writers of fanfiction are overwhelmingly white females between the ages of 25 and 35. The next biggest group is 18 to 24. So I mean, That's, white females between 18 and 34. That's a pretty wide guess. But when you look at their sexuality, that they've self identified as, it's very interesting. The biggest pie, piece of the pie, is straight women. Or straight ish. A fair amount of these people ID as queer, which is a really broad category. But I found that surprising
Rachel:and I'll jump in there because I feel like women's sexuality is a little bit harder to pinpoint anyway But that I will blame on the patriarchy and the commodifying and sexualization of women's bodies because if we're taught that women's bodies are sex objects Then of course when you look at a woman's body, you're gonna think sex Anyways, that's that that's neither here nor there that that is my entry patriarchy corner.
Laura:But the interesting thing though, these fan fiction writers that are female, readers that are female, but the subjects, they're not commodifying women's bodies. They're commodifying men, men, And
Rachel:Flip the script
Laura:men that are fucking each other, men that are putting themselves in hurt, comfort, dubious, consensual, non consensual relationships and using them as playthings. Right back to that first slash fiction that was written by a woman about two men Kirk and Spock putting them in dangerous situations having traumatic things happen to them to further the story and create these sexual situations and People have been complaining for years that men use women in stories to further that male leads journey, you know Man is needs a stimulus to go on a quest of revenge while his wife died or his wife was raped. Fridge? What the Oh, we were talking about that earlier.
Rachel:What? No, but not earlier today. Probably a long time ago. It's like a term in video games. If your wife got fridged. I can't remember the exact reference. Uh, the guy's wife got killed and put in a fridge. He finds her in the fridge. So it became like a slag term for like, Oh, a female's death motivated the protagonist, the male protagonist. She got fridged. Um, I took a class. Did I ever tell you about Okay, quick aside.
Laura:Oh, I'm sure that you took a class
Rachel:took a class in college, uh, I signed up for it because it was called Women in Video dot dot dot dot And I was like, oh hell yeah, I want to learn about the representation of women
Laura:on film
Rachel:was like, I thought we were going to be watching The, the tip drill music video, where they swipe a credit card up her ass. So I get into the class and it was a couple, me and a couple other girls that I knew, and we're sitting there and it was like, welcome to portrayals of women in video games. And we were like, well, we left out a very important word on the like docket of classes. Um, So I have written many a paper on Princess Peach because that is like one of the two video game characters that are female I knew about. Um, actually just kidding, it was three. It was Princess Peach, Lara Croft, and Coco Bandicoot. Those are the three. Okay, sorry. Aside. Liberal Arts Colleges. Save your money.
Laura:but it's just interesting because when there is a same sex relationship, these women are the ones that are writing. They are using these same tropes, you know, of this furthers the journey, this kicks off that and things get violent or there's this great love that assists him on a quest. It's just only the roles recast from female to male. To male. I just think there's some really interesting psychology. Going on there. I don't know what it is exactly, but it's very fascinating again We're not we don't answer these try to answer these questions anymore But my theory is like these are just like human principles of like what? What creates tension? What creates drama? What creates a hero's journey? And it's conflict of some kind. And who doesn't want to throw sex into that conflict? And so when it's men writing, it's men and women, the woman dies and creates this journey. When women are writing, they don't want to cast themselves in these, you know, I don't want to be the one that dies or whatever. Like, so I'm going to take these two established characters and put them into these roles.
Rachel:Yeah, no, I definitely think that there is something interesting there. And like you said, like, the taboo is just kind of scratching it. It just kind of is making it a little bit more exciting and a little bit more titillating. Because you also see, like, when you look at porn trends, right, with women, couplings.
Laura:That makes
Rachel:I don't know if it tends to, but I've heard it anecdotally. What
Laura:So on fanfiction, what are people writing about specifically not just the genre but what universe or Fandom
Rachel:characters are
Laura:popular?
Rachel:fun of?
Laura:Exactly. Alright, we've got the top, I don't know how many, there's a graph here. number one, MCU. Marvel Cinematic Universe. By far, the top, uh, genre of fictions being kicked out. Number two, Harry Potter. Which did surprise me, even after this many years. It's still ranking up there.
Rachel:Oh yeah, didn't we talk about that in the animated porn? Like associations with childhood and like the coming of age and it's just, yeah,
Laura:Still,
Rachel:Oh my God,
Laura:cranking it out. Literally and figuratively. Uh, three, DCU, which is the DC universe. Four, Supernatural. That was the one I
Rachel:that random show is the thing that everybody
Laura:It's so bad, too. I tried to watch it once. So bad.
Rachel:Oh, I like, I
Laura:thing I alluded to at the top was the, the two brothers having butt babies and raising them together because there are two hot male leads, in the show, but they're brothers. And so fan fiction, people were like, well,
Rachel:Yeah, make out!
Laura:character. Yeah, they're the main characters. They're both hot. We're gonna make a makeout. And then you're just gonna go crazy with it. Uh, the next one, number, what, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6? I don't know what number I'm on. Uh, there's some age, what is this, like, My Academia Hero or something? I don't know what that is. Like, B N H A. It's Some Asian thing. Uh, next one, Star Wars. After that, Original Works, which good for them. Trending pretty high up. Uh, and then another one,
Rachel:Oh, God.
Laura:I don't know what
Rachel:No, I was just looking at the one after this.
Laura:Sherlock, BBC.
Rachel:We just love a standoffish male protagonist.
Laura:oh it's so true. A crotchety old, like, uh, curmudgeon.
Rachel:was just like an asshole. Like, I'm a genius, and like, I'm
Laura:curmudgeonly. Inaccessible. Inaccessible.
Rachel:that literally was written by men who thought that they were Sherlock. They're like, heh heh heh.
Laura:No. But men don't write ffic fan
Rachel:No, but they wrote the show. Heh
Laura:But then women were like, yeah, get it
Rachel:No, they just want to see him fuck another man.
Laura:Yep.
Rachel:Which is interesting. Okay, I don't know if we want to get into this yet, but like a theme here is a lot of male friendships, right? Sherlock and his buddy, the other one, Watson. Supernatural, the bros. Harry Potter has like a couple male friends that are close and Star Wars, Hans and Luke and also like a sibling dynamic there and Marvel's all a bunch of men.
Laura:Yeah, let's, let's dive into it, because let's also talk about the top lovers of fanfiction. Dean and Sam Winchester. That is supernatural.
Rachel:they're brothers.
Laura:Yep. And as I heard one person say one time, Where real person fiction is the high road, because if you're like, I really want to see these two get it on, but I know in the show they're brothers and that feels inherently wrong. So I'm going to just write about the actors getting it on.
Rachel:Smart. It's a loophole. It's a loophole.
Laura:a loophole. Exactly. Uh, Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson. This is One Direction. I don't know.
Rachel:That is this breaks, that breaks my heart. But that, that was a little bit dramatic, but just like I, I got to this point. I was like, oh my God, this is what real person fanfic, isn't it? It's real people. And it just, that's traumatizing. That is so traumatizing to me to take somebody who's real and then like, imagine them. I mean, I guess people do that in their heads all the time, but,
Laura:totally.
Rachel:but to write it down and then consume it and people, uh, they're real people.
Laura:it's it's a moral gray area for sure. Like I said, this is this is the thing that some people are like It's not right. Other people are like, yeah, whatever you put yourself out there. It's yeah, okay Next one Steve Rogers and Tony Stark in the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Rachel:don't know who Steve Rogers is.
Laura:Captain America. Tony Stark is Iron Man. Captain America and Iron Man. They have kind of a little bit contentious relationship in the movies. Exactly. Gotta get that going. Uh, next one. Draco Malfoy and Harry Potter.
Rachel:the tension. I, like, one of the few fan fictions I read was about, Harry Potter and Snape. And it turned me
Laura:y! I never, ugh! Snare y
Rachel:like child predation and I
Laura:Yes!
Rachel:it.
Laura:It's a very popular one. I'm surprised it didn't make it to the top of these pairings. I don't remember what the source was for this but this was a legitimate, I'll link it in the show notes, but Snare y, Snape and Harry, did not make it into this list, but that is a popular one that has disturbed me for many many
Rachel:He's just like, I want to look in your eyes.
Laura:Ugh! You have your mother's eye. Ah! That makes it so much creepier! Okay. next one. Bucky Barnes and Steve Rogers. So, uh, the Winter Soldier and Captain America,
Rachel:the fuck is a winter soldier? I've never heard of that.
Laura:you don't, you don't do the Marvel Universe but it, he's a,
Rachel:that a superhero? I thought that was Captain
Laura:a villain. No, the Winter Soldier is a villain, um, Who used to be Steve Rogers friend, that theme that you talked about before. Uh, Sherlock Holmes, John Watson is the next one on the list, and then Castile and Dean Winchester in Supernatural. This is somebody who's not his
Rachel:It's an angel. It's like one of the top ships, internet ships. Um, and I'll just say like, the glass ceiling is real because a woman has not even cracked this list of top fan fiction sexual folks.
Laura:because it's mostly women, straight women, who are writing these fictions, so they like dudes.
Rachel:That's true
Laura:Get the dudes on. Same as men who love lesbians. Z2, two girls, get it on. This is exactly the thing, apparently, that women are also equally into. It's interesting, right?
Rachel:Yeah, and I mean, I think we're on to something with the like the relationship, right? Because there's like seeing the men be vulnerable I guess together is what makes women aroused.
Laura:Yes, because this is the theme that two men in a contentious relationship. Again, the tension, or they're just too close friends. And that is something that's very interesting. So yeah. Women, or society on a whole, were begging men to open up, be vulnerable, have friendships, have emotional attachments. But when they do, in these fictional universes, women are running over to AO3 to write porn about how they're actually
Rachel:gay together. That's amazing. Well, that's because all women want gay men. Is that is that a secret? Is that like taboo? No, every every woman has a gay friend. They're like, hmm If only, if only you would see me and the gays know it. And they use that to their advantage. They could take over the world if they wanted to. You know? but to me, it's also interesting to look at it. Because I, here comes my feminist lens coming back on. I feel like A, men are more often the main characters, right? So they're more often the dynamic characters where there is that tension. Where there is that more, like,
Laura:More complicated layers, you're
Rachel:which is sexy. Complication is sexy. Right? And paired with that B, uh, you know, they're not going to typically get together canonically, right? So you're not going to have that satisfying moment because think of bones, right? I've been watching, again, that's like my newborn comfort show. We've been watching a lot of bones, like the sexual tension ends with them coupling, right? So why would I want to write about that when it happens on the screen?
Laura:it's happening in real time. I'm just waiting for it to happen in real time
Rachel:Yeah, yeah, because, you know, if there's a woman in the story, she's usually there to exist as some kind of romantic partner, so those, you're going to see that story play, that storyline play out, you know, like the Jim and Pam tension, nobody's, people probably aren't writing fanfic about that because it's what
Laura:anymore. I bet they were at the moment, but you're right. That's like a point in time. So it's not like one of the most popular pairings because eventually it
Rachel:They got together and they got kids and it's like, oh, that's boring. It's real life. But Dwight and Jim, they never happen. So like, what kind of kinky stuff do they have going out in the mating shed behind the whatever barn on Schrute Farms? The mating shed is actually a reference from 30 Rock.
Laura:Is that a
Rachel:Kenneth? Yeah, He's like, what did he say? Something about albinos? It's like. You get to be watchers in the mating shed or something like that. It's just, God, 30 Rock, always dancing on the line of what was actually okay to say and not, but it was funny.
Laura:I think that's very interesting when you talk about men being the main characters and most complex characters. And that's why it spurns so much fan fiction because I mean, women watch porn. That's not a shocker, right? We
Rachel:What? Women aren't asexual beings who just lay and wait to be used by a man?
Laura:but they aren't the top, consumers of pornography. We know this. I feel like maybe I'm speaking a little bit on a turn. I know there are exceptions to this rule. There are some women that see a picture of a dick just to, you know, Impersonal picture of a dick and we're like, yeah, I am not that person, you know, like
Rachel:It's more about the emotions and the tension and the buildup, which doesn't really occur In videos you would find on specific pornographic websites. It happens on, what, AO3? Is that what it's called?
Laura:Precisely. Yes, because I can watch a porno that has very poorly acted things where they try to create something. It's Fucking bullshit. I'm not into it. I would much rather be into, I'm watching this highly polished, great written show. I understand this person and all their different motivations and layers. And then my mind comes together and develops a sexual scenario that is much more titillating to me than two strangers boning it out on a porno because of those emotional layers. So I think that is why. Fan fiction leads towards the female and again, maybe leans more towards these homosexual relationships because you have people who have more dynamic layers that play of those emotions of that personality plus the sex. That's what people are looking for. And really, to me, what this opens up is like we need a whole new like porno genre that it's just like regular shows produced just as great. And just as good of a writing only at the very end and just as good acting, that's important. But then at the end of, you know, maybe every four episodes, there's just like complete hardcore porno.
Rachel:Isn't that, like, HBO?
Laura:No, it's not as good. I mean, HBO gets like dirty, but not like hardcore porno because you don't can't get good actors to get, you know, fucked.
Rachel:Dude, who was, it was in Game of Thrones! There was, like, actual software porn happening, right? I remember
Laura:I mean, there's soft core.
Rachel:But it was, like, a surprisingly famous person who was doing it. I've only, I've only, watched the first season. And I just remember being like, oh, wow, this is what HBO's all about.
Laura:So, porno, whether it's written on the screen on HBO or we write it ourselves.
Rachel:And also I feel like your dream could come true with like AI and these deep fakes where we could see like actual characters that we like from actual shows fucking, and that's
Laura:Kind of scary.
Rachel:than it is titillating, that's for sure.
Laura:Agreed.
Rachel:I don't want to see those poor bros from Supernatural actually doing it. I'm just
Laura:Oh! It's AI! Oh God, that's actually a really disturbing thought that fan fiction isn't going to be fan fiction anymore. It's just going to be people deep faking
Rachel:No.
Laura:ing.
Rachel:fanfiction, because writing about two men having anal sex is very different than seeing anal sex. Women, yeah, I think women are still going to prefer that written word, because sex is violent and awkward and gross at times, so it's just,
Laura:Uh whole new can of worms there Okay, so when it comes to fan fiction there are Writers, you know, the original writers, and people that are outside of the community, they make fun of fanfiction. They're like, you guys are just fucking lazy. You just write what other people have already done. You've taken my works and you're turning it into something else. These are people who can't make up their own characters. Fanfiction is a great place to start writing and for those of us who don't have a ton of time to imagine our own Original universes because we're working the 16 hours a day as they were back in the 1700s It's it's basically like playing dolls. You don't make the dolls yourself, right? You don't manufacture the bodies and paint their faces on and give them hair Somebody else makes the dolls and gives them some core characteristics But you just get to pick up and play with them and make them do the things that you want them to do. And, you know, because we're human beings and we're really just, you know, overgrown apes, that's sex.
Rachel:Yeah. Oh yeah. I just, I mean, even with Barbies, that's what it devolved to. Come on folks. Let's be real. But yeah, that's exactly it. Like you can criticize it, but that's just the difference of somebody who's maybe very seriously, very serious into a craft or into an art versus like a hobbyist, right? You know, I can go to my painting wine class and make something for fun and enjoy it, but that's not like. Oh, hi art, you know, or like I can go out I'm not gonna go out into nature and try to cut it on my own for two weeks But you bet your ass I'll walk on a trail somebody else made and be like I'm a nature bitch Right, and it's it's like you said playing dolls and that actually connects cuz you know I've never I've never written erotic friend fiction, but I have made Sims of people that I know, including myself and Sims of characters from books and like movies and TV shows that I've watched, like recreate the situations and doing that and like, you know, Sims from the computer game, I'll say. So it's just like people have this innate urge to take the stories that they have and expand upon them in their own playing, whether that's by sitting down and writing or dolls or Sims. It doesn't make it any less valid or less of a story, right? It's just people, like you said, who want to dabble in it without starting from scratch. Or you know, you just get your inspiration. You get inspiration from what's around you.
Laura:Yeah, and it's like Just because it's inspired by other things doesn't make the writing any less, in my eyes, to be a form of high art, like I said, because some of these are written so fucking well, and the grasp of the character is amazing, and the writing It's so Style or the abilities of the writers are truly amazing and that doesn't lessen your talent just because you're using What other people have created to start this you're not a career writer You're a hobbyist you're taking a god given talent or Satan given talent in Rachel's case and you are using it In whatever way that you can. And I think that that's admirable. because like I said, I've seen a lot of really, really great writers. And I don't see any point in shitting on them. I think it's a, I think it's admirable in any case. Whether you use it to write porn with somebody else's characters, or to just write a, a gen, general fiction, a fluff. Whatever the case may be, you're using the talents that you have, uh, and, and that is wonderful.
Rachel:Like, yeah, you go to any bar with karaoke, there's going to be that one person who sings really, really good. And that
Laura:Yeah.
Rachel:just having a good fucking time.
Laura:Yeah. And they're like, oh, you didn't write that song. Well, fuck off. I'm fucking like re writing it
Rachel:Oh yeah, just like there's a lot of talented people out there who never have a chance to do, use their talent for living. So just let them enjoy it where they can.
Laura:yes. So that's it, folks. A little dive into a sexy corner of the internet in fan fiction. I really enjoyed this research. It did remind me of our furries episode a little bit. And we talked about it kind of throughout, but no matter what you think of this stuff, you have to hats off to them. People are laboring with love. Being a fan doesn't always have to be passive. You can create with it and open a whole new side of yourself you didn't know existed. I didn't start writing with fan fiction, but it was definitely how I started honing my craft and developing a writing style And if a creator can inspire other people with their works, I think that's the highest form of flattery.
Rachel:And I would agree. So send us your Impolite Society inspired fan fix. They don't have to be Femslash. They could also just be Rachel and Laura editing a podcast.
Laura:I definitely want to see the Femme Slashes. Ha
Rachel:and Laura going to a podcast conference that has full of strife and tension. And you can send them to rude at impolitesocietypodcast. com and be sure to download, rate, and subscribe in all the places and shit, um, that we are, you know, you getting out there and doing that is our number one way for us. To help other people find us. And if you really feel impassioned to help other people find us, just tell them directly, share this episode with the fanfic reader, writer, or just like a stranger online, who's into fanfic on Tumblr, post it on your Tumblr. You know, just connection is one podcast share away. It's a wild world out there. And we're just here to learn about it.
Laura:Damn Skippy, off to the drums!
Rachel:Stay curious or whatever I say normally.
Laura:thing. Whatever.